In this article, I'm going to outline a few "arguments" (they're more like things that seem to contradict a personal god or that make its existence illogical, but whatever) against the existence of a "personal god". But first, what is a personal god?
Well, when people say they believe in a god, they mean very different things. Some believe in a deistic god (i.e. some sort of greater force that essentially pushed the start button for the universe, but plays no role in anything after that - he's basically not really there). I am NOT arguing against this kind (maybe in another piece…). The type of god I'm arguing against is the type that I think most "religious" people believe in. These are a list of criteria that make a personal god (in my opinion):
Assumptions:
Well, when people say they believe in a god, they mean very different things. Some believe in a deistic god (i.e. some sort of greater force that essentially pushed the start button for the universe, but plays no role in anything after that - he's basically not really there). I am NOT arguing against this kind (maybe in another piece…). The type of god I'm arguing against is the type that I think most "religious" people believe in. These are a list of criteria that make a personal god (in my opinion):
Assumptions:
1. This god personally cares about human affairs
2. This god can experience emotions (ex. he "loves" you and "cares" about you)
2. This god can experience emotions (ex. he "loves" you and "cares" about you)
2. This god created the universe and everything in it with humanity in mind
3. This god is omniscient, omnipotent and omni-benevolent (i.e. good)
4. This god designed all human beings
NOTE: You may disagree with some of the assumptions made above. It's not that important - most of these arguments only attack one or two of these assumptions. So, let's get started...
NOTE: You may disagree with some of the assumptions made above. It's not that important - most of these arguments only attack one or two of these assumptions. So, let's get started...
Argument #1: Origin of Pain & Suffering
God is supposedly all powerful. He can do anything he wants at any time he wants. In fact, he can even perform miracles and intervene in human affairs (if you are a follower of any of the mainstream Abrahamic religions like Islam or Christianity, this is a premise that you have to accept). If this god is all powerful, why is there so much suffering in this world. Why are some kids born into poverty? Why are little girls kidnapped and tortured and then beat to death before seeing their 10th birthday? Why do some babies get diseases in the first few months of their existence? Why wouldn't a god intervene here? These atrocities happen every moment of every day around the world and supposedly, heaven and god watch all of this pain and misery unfold with their arms crossed, doing absolutely nothing about it. This doesn't sound like a benevolent creator to me.
A common rebuttal is that god does not want to intervene because he wants to give humans free will and choice….Well then what about miracles?! Every miracle is god taking things into his own hands, making a mockery of free will! It just doesn't add up…
Argument #2: Poor Human Design
Nobody expects us humans to be perfect. We have adapted over millions of years to have the traits and features we have now, but we are definitely not perfect. If god is an all powerful being who would have had the knowledge of how humans would live with their traits, then why did he design us so poorly? And in ways that cause so much hardship and additional suffering?
Just a few examples of poor design that god supposedly including in his blueprint: wisdom teeth, blind spots, inefficient eyes, incredibly painful and inefficient child birth (sometimes resulting in death of mother), the fact that both the esophagus and trachea are connected, leading to choking, the existence of the appendix (in some cases), an incredibly weak spinal cord, poor sinus structures, etc….
Is this guy incompetent or what? Joking aside, aside from humans, one also has to explain things like EVERY SINGLE DISEASE OUT THERE…why create them when he KNOWS that they are going to cause the death and suffering of literally billions of his "beloved subjects".
Argument #3: Poor Design of the Cosmos:
Our solar system has 8 planets (sorry Pluto) and up to around 180 moons. Out of these 188 spheres of rocks and stuff, one, I repeat ONE harbours proper life. Everything else in our solar system (and it seems most of the universe as far as we can tell) is completely dead. Nothing is there and in some cases, no life will ever be there because their environments are so inhospitable. Space is really, really big with a lot of empty space and a lot of dead stuff. Why create so many useless things if you are only going to populate one, tiny sphere in one tine corner of some random galaxy?
Also, if god supposedly created everything in the universe, he seems a bit mischievous and perhaps malevolent because the universe is NOT friendly to life overall. Ex. Life depends on giant spheres of nuclear fire - get too close you'll die; too far and…you'll still die. Oh, but even if you're in the right spot, watch out for all of the radiation that's going to come from this sphere. Oh yeah, and watch your back too because there is cosmic radiation and asteroids and other stuff that is looking to either mess up your DNA or completely destroy you. On average, these stars explode in a massive supernovae every second, completely obliterating everything within a certain distance. Most suns eventually become Red Giants (inclined our sun/), and will swallow up all planets in their range…It seems like a lot of the universe is based on death and destruction…boy, that sounds like some great design, eh?
God is supposedly all powerful. He can do anything he wants at any time he wants. In fact, he can even perform miracles and intervene in human affairs (if you are a follower of any of the mainstream Abrahamic religions like Islam or Christianity, this is a premise that you have to accept). If this god is all powerful, why is there so much suffering in this world. Why are some kids born into poverty? Why are little girls kidnapped and tortured and then beat to death before seeing their 10th birthday? Why do some babies get diseases in the first few months of their existence? Why wouldn't a god intervene here? These atrocities happen every moment of every day around the world and supposedly, heaven and god watch all of this pain and misery unfold with their arms crossed, doing absolutely nothing about it. This doesn't sound like a benevolent creator to me.
A common rebuttal is that god does not want to intervene because he wants to give humans free will and choice….Well then what about miracles?! Every miracle is god taking things into his own hands, making a mockery of free will! It just doesn't add up…
Argument #2: Poor Human Design
Nobody expects us humans to be perfect. We have adapted over millions of years to have the traits and features we have now, but we are definitely not perfect. If god is an all powerful being who would have had the knowledge of how humans would live with their traits, then why did he design us so poorly? And in ways that cause so much hardship and additional suffering?
Just a few examples of poor design that god supposedly including in his blueprint: wisdom teeth, blind spots, inefficient eyes, incredibly painful and inefficient child birth (sometimes resulting in death of mother), the fact that both the esophagus and trachea are connected, leading to choking, the existence of the appendix (in some cases), an incredibly weak spinal cord, poor sinus structures, etc….
Is this guy incompetent or what? Joking aside, aside from humans, one also has to explain things like EVERY SINGLE DISEASE OUT THERE…why create them when he KNOWS that they are going to cause the death and suffering of literally billions of his "beloved subjects".
Argument #3: Poor Design of the Cosmos:
Our solar system has 8 planets (sorry Pluto) and up to around 180 moons. Out of these 188 spheres of rocks and stuff, one, I repeat ONE harbours proper life. Everything else in our solar system (and it seems most of the universe as far as we can tell) is completely dead. Nothing is there and in some cases, no life will ever be there because their environments are so inhospitable. Space is really, really big with a lot of empty space and a lot of dead stuff. Why create so many useless things if you are only going to populate one, tiny sphere in one tine corner of some random galaxy?
Also, if god supposedly created everything in the universe, he seems a bit mischievous and perhaps malevolent because the universe is NOT friendly to life overall. Ex. Life depends on giant spheres of nuclear fire - get too close you'll die; too far and…you'll still die. Oh, but even if you're in the right spot, watch out for all of the radiation that's going to come from this sphere. Oh yeah, and watch your back too because there is cosmic radiation and asteroids and other stuff that is looking to either mess up your DNA or completely destroy you. On average, these stars explode in a massive supernovae every second, completely obliterating everything within a certain distance. Most suns eventually become Red Giants (inclined our sun/), and will swallow up all planets in their range…It seems like a lot of the universe is based on death and destruction…boy, that sounds like some great design, eh?
Argument #4: The Complexity Issue and the First Cause
Here's a common argument I hear a lot. "Look at all of this. Look at us humans. We're so complex. You're telling me all of this could have just come from random bullshit and some Big bang? No way! There must be a perfect, infinite god to have done all of this!"
I think what they're really getting at here is "man look at this complexity. There needs to be something to create this complexity".
Humans and the universe and a bunch of other stuff are definitely complex…but I don't think a god is the answer here. Why? Because it just introduces new problems. In any "design", there's going to be something that's created and there's going to be a creator. Creator is always more complex than the thing being created (i.e. bacteria cannot make computers because computing is far too complex for them, but humans definitely can). If you're looking at the universe and saying that things are complex, then really, the creator that creates everything needs to be even more complex than the universe he creates? The problem the? We now have something even more complex (this creator god)! Who created him? If you want to propose that the universe needs a creator, then why doesn't the creator need a creator? If you want to say this creator doesn't need to be created and that he is infinite and shit, why not just make it simpler and say the same for the universe (i.e. then there is no need for a creator?). It seems like a creator god may just make things even more complicated and hard to explain!
Here's a common argument I hear a lot. "Look at all of this. Look at us humans. We're so complex. You're telling me all of this could have just come from random bullshit and some Big bang? No way! There must be a perfect, infinite god to have done all of this!"
I think what they're really getting at here is "man look at this complexity. There needs to be something to create this complexity".
Humans and the universe and a bunch of other stuff are definitely complex…but I don't think a god is the answer here. Why? Because it just introduces new problems. In any "design", there's going to be something that's created and there's going to be a creator. Creator is always more complex than the thing being created (i.e. bacteria cannot make computers because computing is far too complex for them, but humans definitely can). If you're looking at the universe and saying that things are complex, then really, the creator that creates everything needs to be even more complex than the universe he creates? The problem the? We now have something even more complex (this creator god)! Who created him? If you want to propose that the universe needs a creator, then why doesn't the creator need a creator? If you want to say this creator doesn't need to be created and that he is infinite and shit, why not just make it simpler and say the same for the universe (i.e. then there is no need for a creator?). It seems like a creator god may just make things even more complicated and hard to explain!
Argument #5: An Internal Hell Demands A Malevolent God
Many believers in a personal god also believe in a heaven and hell. After all, there needs to be someone upstairs to reward the good and punish the and, right? I WANT JUSTICE! Well, the existence of a hell makes this issue a little tricky.
First the existence of an eternal hell (i.e. people are sent to hell for freaking eternity). Now, here's the argument. All human life (on earth) is finite. Therefore, any sins or crimes are finite in scope (ex. Hitler was a massive douche bag, but his sins are still finite in number by definition). Now, supposedly, a hell exists for Hitler to go for eternity. This is infinite punishment for a finite crime. Please, try to understand how long an eternity is…HINT: You can't because it's a fucking long time! That is unjust, is it not? How can any sin, no matter how bad, earn an INFINITE punishment? Is this personal god therefore unjust?
If you believe in a temporary hell, that makes god look like less of an ass hat, but there are still dark implications. So, you do a bad thing and you go to hell for some amount of time, and then you can go take a chariot ride to heaven. Win-win for everybody, right? Well….the thing is that this god is omniscient and knows everything (including everything you will do - all of the bad stuff before he even creates you). So, say you're a murderer. Before you are even created, he knows you will go to hell…so you're punished for that? Where's your chance to prove yourself? Why is there any punishment in the first place if god's the one who designed you and knew what you would become?
If you want to get around this with the whole "god gives us free will" thing, well, then you're directly contradicting all of the miracles that many believers in god and religion believe in (since this would be god interfering with man's will).
Argument #6: Human Behaviour Demands A Malevolent God
There are an infinite number of possible gods. Overall, there have been literally hundreds of thousands of proposed deities. From sun gods to volcano gods, to Apollo and Zeus, to Xenu and Jesus…there are a lot. It seems like it's human nature to invent gods to cope with life. I'm not going to get into why this poses problems for many religions (it does) because that doesn't concern a personal god.
Instead, I'm going to mention the idea that this personal god supposedly loves his human creations and wants them to have a relationship with them and wants them to love him back. 1) This personal god should have some defining characteristics - if so, he's done an embarrassingly horrible job in revealing his characteristics due to the fact that different ideas of gods across cultures vary so much. 2) If he wants us to believe in him and love him and shit, why be so ambiguous with everything. Why not clearly present himself and show clear evidence for his exact existence. You may say that according to your religion, he has given sufficient proof, but by definition, he has not since the majority of the human race does not believe in one single religion (therefore, he has NOT revealed himself in a smart way). Is he playing with us? Does he want to see us receive punishment for not believing in him (as many religions propose)? Either way, he doesn't seem like a great guy.
Argument #7: When Does this god start caring about humans?
This may not be something you personally believe, but many believers in a personal god feel that he is there for humans (i.e. everything is designed for humans). Basically he cares about humans and not other random creatures (i.e. no dogs and beetles and lizards in heaven).
The question is: when does he start caring about humans? It is clearly shown through the fossil record and through other mountains of evidence that we have evolved from other species (species that would NOT be classified as humans). Since evolution is slow and gradual, there really is no distinguishing line between what is human and what is not. How does god know when to start caring about humans if it's supposedly only humans he's interested in? Where does he draw the line? When do the gates of heaven open up for the "humans" on earth. When modern humans mated with neandtherals (i.e. not humans), they made babies that are not exactly humans…would that kid go to heaven? WOuld god love him? He's more of a hybrid human, so is there room in heaven for these kinds of half or quarter or one sixty-fourth humans? If not, take that neanderthal example - god loves his human creations and supposedly loves that human father…but couldn't care less about his son…sounds weird, right? Clearly, there are A LOT of problems here.
Argument #8: When Does Intervention Occur?
On a similar note to the previous argument, when does god step in and start carrying if he supposedly only really cares about humans (since there are millions of spices that precede us). Again, the line between humans and non-humans is very blurred…when does god step in? Did early humans that weren't necessarily humans but were kind of humans completely ignored? Does god only care and perform miracles for humans? Many people spit bullshit about god performing miracles for their dogs or some other pet. Clearly, these guys are silly and have no place in an intelligent discussion, but consider that - if true, which animals does god protect and care for and take to heaven…many questions….many logical fallacies….very few satisfying answers.
Please understand that none of this IN ANY WAY disproves god. All I am arguing is that there are many logical fallacies and inconsistencies associated with the belief in a personal god. To me, it just doesn't seem like the rational point of view. If you disagree or hold different views, please leave a comment - it's always good to have discussions about such things!
Many believers in a personal god also believe in a heaven and hell. After all, there needs to be someone upstairs to reward the good and punish the and, right? I WANT JUSTICE! Well, the existence of a hell makes this issue a little tricky.
First the existence of an eternal hell (i.e. people are sent to hell for freaking eternity). Now, here's the argument. All human life (on earth) is finite. Therefore, any sins or crimes are finite in scope (ex. Hitler was a massive douche bag, but his sins are still finite in number by definition). Now, supposedly, a hell exists for Hitler to go for eternity. This is infinite punishment for a finite crime. Please, try to understand how long an eternity is…HINT: You can't because it's a fucking long time! That is unjust, is it not? How can any sin, no matter how bad, earn an INFINITE punishment? Is this personal god therefore unjust?
If you believe in a temporary hell, that makes god look like less of an ass hat, but there are still dark implications. So, you do a bad thing and you go to hell for some amount of time, and then you can go take a chariot ride to heaven. Win-win for everybody, right? Well….the thing is that this god is omniscient and knows everything (including everything you will do - all of the bad stuff before he even creates you). So, say you're a murderer. Before you are even created, he knows you will go to hell…so you're punished for that? Where's your chance to prove yourself? Why is there any punishment in the first place if god's the one who designed you and knew what you would become?
If you want to get around this with the whole "god gives us free will" thing, well, then you're directly contradicting all of the miracles that many believers in god and religion believe in (since this would be god interfering with man's will).
Argument #6: Human Behaviour Demands A Malevolent God
There are an infinite number of possible gods. Overall, there have been literally hundreds of thousands of proposed deities. From sun gods to volcano gods, to Apollo and Zeus, to Xenu and Jesus…there are a lot. It seems like it's human nature to invent gods to cope with life. I'm not going to get into why this poses problems for many religions (it does) because that doesn't concern a personal god.
Instead, I'm going to mention the idea that this personal god supposedly loves his human creations and wants them to have a relationship with them and wants them to love him back. 1) This personal god should have some defining characteristics - if so, he's done an embarrassingly horrible job in revealing his characteristics due to the fact that different ideas of gods across cultures vary so much. 2) If he wants us to believe in him and love him and shit, why be so ambiguous with everything. Why not clearly present himself and show clear evidence for his exact existence. You may say that according to your religion, he has given sufficient proof, but by definition, he has not since the majority of the human race does not believe in one single religion (therefore, he has NOT revealed himself in a smart way). Is he playing with us? Does he want to see us receive punishment for not believing in him (as many religions propose)? Either way, he doesn't seem like a great guy.
Argument #7: When Does this god start caring about humans?
This may not be something you personally believe, but many believers in a personal god feel that he is there for humans (i.e. everything is designed for humans). Basically he cares about humans and not other random creatures (i.e. no dogs and beetles and lizards in heaven).
The question is: when does he start caring about humans? It is clearly shown through the fossil record and through other mountains of evidence that we have evolved from other species (species that would NOT be classified as humans). Since evolution is slow and gradual, there really is no distinguishing line between what is human and what is not. How does god know when to start caring about humans if it's supposedly only humans he's interested in? Where does he draw the line? When do the gates of heaven open up for the "humans" on earth. When modern humans mated with neandtherals (i.e. not humans), they made babies that are not exactly humans…would that kid go to heaven? WOuld god love him? He's more of a hybrid human, so is there room in heaven for these kinds of half or quarter or one sixty-fourth humans? If not, take that neanderthal example - god loves his human creations and supposedly loves that human father…but couldn't care less about his son…sounds weird, right? Clearly, there are A LOT of problems here.
Argument #8: When Does Intervention Occur?
On a similar note to the previous argument, when does god step in and start carrying if he supposedly only really cares about humans (since there are millions of spices that precede us). Again, the line between humans and non-humans is very blurred…when does god step in? Did early humans that weren't necessarily humans but were kind of humans completely ignored? Does god only care and perform miracles for humans? Many people spit bullshit about god performing miracles for their dogs or some other pet. Clearly, these guys are silly and have no place in an intelligent discussion, but consider that - if true, which animals does god protect and care for and take to heaven…many questions….many logical fallacies….very few satisfying answers.
Please understand that none of this IN ANY WAY disproves god. All I am arguing is that there are many logical fallacies and inconsistencies associated with the belief in a personal god. To me, it just doesn't seem like the rational point of view. If you disagree or hold different views, please leave a comment - it's always good to have discussions about such things!
Everything is good about your blog but I completely feel the religion part is full of sh*t and shows that you don't have enough knowledge about what real religion is and also about not only Christianity and Islam, but certain religions like Hinduism. maybe you parents didn't teach you properly but please don't post such ridiculous arguments with zero IQ about what religion is and how it should be used. Hinduism is basically not religion but, a culture. You might ask me why do the gods have more than two hands, well don't look at it in that way. just like the way you act while during a baseball game (if u play baseball) and the way u are during school is different, the same way the different forms represent different behavior of the power/god. (merciful, punishing, elegant etc). but yes I do believe that other religions have really crappy beliefs but Hinduism is the oldest and most sustainable and makes a lot of sense if learn t properly. and lastly, god will never appear in person in front of your face. Help will come to you through other people that will come to u at the right place and the right time when u least expect it. things happen around you that u take for granted, but their is always a special power that creates, protects and destroys life on earth and the earth itself. one day, if someone teaches u what religion actually is, u will understand and trust me throw anything at me and i will hv an answer because i have studied Hinduism in post masters and it has all answers to questions especially for people like you. BTW- i am a born christian from USA who was an atheist until when I started my PhD to disprove religion which eventually changed, studied in Wharton school of business and have a PhD in World Religions from University of Pennsylvania, but through research and through understanding of the Vedas and the Bagavath Geetha and Hindu Sampradaya, I have cleared my doubts.
ReplyDelete-Jerry Nova
Thanks for the comment. I will definitely conceded that I know very little about religion overall and should be careful in the future when making broad statements.
DeleteWhen I was writing the post, I was actually focused mainly on Islam and Christianity which are the more dominant religions in the news and media where I live. From what I know about Hinduism, it seems to be a different religion than most and I'm actually interested in learning more about it.
A couple of questions if you don't mind:
1. Do Hindus believe in a personal god like the one in Christianity that has emotions and, as described in the bible, feels "hate" and "greed"?
2. Is there a figure in Hinduism that is analogous to Mohammed or Jesus Christ?
3. Do you know of any Hindus who take the religion and all of the different deities metaphorically instead if literally?
4. Just off the top of my head, Hinduism seems to be less prone to violence compared to other mainstream religions even though they all talk about peace. What is it about Hinduism that makes it this way in your opinion?
5. What is the source of evil In Hinduism (why is it here, where does it come from)? Also, is there a hell in Hinduism?
Thanks in advance for reading this. Im always open to learning so its great when people like yourself take the time to help others. I the future, please don't hesitate to brig up any concerns or arguments on any of the other posts.